We’re now in Year Seven of the MAGA movement, yet we the people still can’t agree on how the mainstream media – especially the broadcasters – should cover threats to democracy. Should MAGA leaders be banned from the airwaves, and thus denied the opportunity to amplify their lies? Or should they be welcomed as guests but aggressively fact-checked? Is it even possible to fact-check them in real time?
More specifically: Did ABC News host George Stephanopoulos do a good job on his Sunday show when he confronted congressman Steve Scalise – one of the House GOP leaders who’d voted to overturn Joe Biden’s victory – and demanded nine times that Scalise admit that the ’20 election was legit? But since Scalise refused nine times to give a straight answer, was Stephanopoulos wrong to give the guy air time in the first place?
What do you think? Let’s read the transcript together.
Attempt #1: Stephanopoulos quoted Ken Buck, a lame duck Republican congressman who says that Joe Biden didn’t steal the election. Stephanopoulos then addressed Scalise: “Your response?”
Scalise responded, “Well, Ken I’ve worked with on a number of issues, including getting spending under control, getting our economy back on track…At the end of the day, getting our country back on track is our focus. And that’s what we’re focused on right now.” He segued into a long riff about energy prices, concluding with “Let’s make our energy in America, not let Iran and other bad hostile countries get that money that they use to fund terrorism. Those are bills we just passed. That’s what our focus has been on, getting our country back on track and supporting our allies and going after our enemies who are emboldened right now by the weakness from this administration. We need stronger action right now.”
You’ll notice he never answered the question.
Attempt #2: Stephanopoulos followed up, “Can you say unequivocally that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “What I’ve told you, there are states that didn’t follow their laws. That is what the state constitution – the U.S. Constitution requires. You know, I’ve seen in my own state where we had to send our elections commissioner to jail years ago for fraud and corruption. And we cleaned up our act in our state. Every state ought to follow the laws that are on their books. That’s what the U.S. Constitution says.”
Scalise was referring to an election official in Louisiana who went to jail decades ago for crimes that had nothing to do with vote fraud. His riff about “states that didn’t follow their laws,” was a reference to the states that took emergency health measures to expand mail balloting during the Covid pandemic. When Trump’s lawyers screamed fraud after his defeat, the courts (including Trump-appointed judges) unanimously ruled that the states had acted constitutionally. Stephanopoulos couldn’t fact-check all that in real time, but…
Attempt #3: Stephanopoulos followed up again, “That’s not what I asked. I said, can you say unequivocally that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “Look, Joe Biden’s president. I know you and others want to talk about 2020. We’re focused on the future,” which triggered a long detour about China, Taiwan, Russia, and Iran. And it was funny to hear Scalise insist that only the media wants to talk about 2020 – because his own leader is the guy who’s most obsessed about 2020. This past weekend, Trump told a Florida rally: “We won, the last time, 50 states, think of it, 50 states.”
Attempt #4: Stephanopoulos, after letting Scalise ramble at length, followed up again: “Congressman, I know that Joe Biden is president. I’m asking you a different question. Can you say unequivocally that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “What I’ve told you, and you’ve – you’ve seen this – there are states that didn’t follow the laws that are on their books, which is what the U.S. Constitution says they have to do.”
Attempt #5: Stephanopoulos followed up again, “So you just refuse to say unequivocally that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “So, you want to keep rehashing 2020. We’re talking about the future…”
Attempt #6: Stephanopoulos again: “I just want an answer to the question, yes or no?”
Scalise responded, “Look, we’ve talked about this before. But, again, will you acknowledge that there were states that didn’t follow the actual state legislative-enacted laws on their book, which the U.S. Constitution says they’re supposed to do? Do you know that?”
Attempt #7: Stephanopoulos said, “I know that every court that looked at whether the election was stolen said it wasn’t, rejected those claims. And I asked you a very, very simple question…Can you say unequivocally that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “I told you there were a handful – there were a handful of – there were a handful of states that didn’t follow their laws. The rest did. The rest followed…there were a handful of states that didn’t follow the laws that were on the books. They went to secretaries of state to change the rules of the game and then the voters didn’t know what the rules were because ultimately the state laws weren’t followed in those states. That’s not what the U.S. Constitution says. At some point, we should go back to following the Constitution, George.”
Attempt #8: Stephanopoulos said, “The courts have all followed the Constitution. (In more than 60 court cases) they all rejected the claims you just made…Again, for the record, you cannot say that the 2020 election was not stolen?”
Scalise responded, “Or they said there was no standard. Some of them, they didn’t reject some of those (cases).”
By this point, Scalise was just blowing smoke. So, Attempt #9: “Yes or no, was the 2020 election stolen?”
Scalise responded, “What I’ve told you is Joe Biden’s the president of the United States, and right now, he’s failing the country on so many fronts,” which triggered another long detour and then, “So the president can keep talking about the past. You can. We’re going to talk about the future…That’s what we’re focused on in this House.”
Whereupon the host curtly threw his guest off the air: “Thanks for your time this morning.”
Props to Stephanopouos for trying. But was he right to indulge Scalise for so long? Was it perhaps beneficial for viewers to see how tethered these MAGAts are to the lies they’ve retailed for so long? Or was Stephanopoulos wrong to give the liar air time? If you have the definitive answer, you’re wiser than I.